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Author Topic: Sound design: Pitchbend programming in Saurus  (Read 9484 times)

Markus Krause

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Sound design: Pitchbend programming in Saurus
« on: May 04, 2015, 12:56:11 PM »
When you initialize a new patch in Saurus2 the default pitchwheel range is set to 1 octave.


Pitchwheel bends 2 halftones:
In mod matrix set 'Pitchwh.' as source. Set 'OSC fine' as target. Set send level to 100%.

Pitchwheel bends 4 octaves:
In mod matrix set 'Pitchwh.' as source. Set 'OSC pitch' as target. Set send level to 100%.

Pitchwheel bends 2 octaves:
In mod matrix set 'Pitchwh.' as source. Set 'OSC pitch' as target. Set send level to 50%. You can use 'shift' + left mousebutton to finetune the value.

Pitchwheel bends 1 octave:
In mod matrix set 'Pitchwh.' as source. Set 'OSC pitch' as target. Set send level to 25%. You can use 'shift' + left mousebutton to finetune the value.

Pitchwheel bends 1 octave with glissando:
In mod matrix set 'Pitchwh.' as source. Set 'OSC semi' as target. Set send level to 100%.

dave

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Re: Sound design: Pitchbend programming in Saurus
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2015, 04:58:52 PM »
Thanks for this Markus, good info to have.

However, and I know there's been some discussion about this already, it really seems that a synth this mature (and great! don't get me wrong, I love it!) should have a more usable pitch bend range implementation.

Using the OSC Find workaround you suggest is problematic, because I'm not feeling like there are an abundance of mod slots to the extent that using more than one just for this common function is great. It's clearly a better workaround than not having one, and flexible, since you can affect only one osc, or affect them differently, but I think it'd make sense to solve the most common case more simply in this otherwise great and well thought out synth.

Ideally, there would be a dedicated pitch bend range parameter, spec'd in semitones. Making that change without affecting existing patches could be done I think, by converting old-style patches with mod matrix pitchbend to the new parameter when they were read. That seems possible, but it's clearly more work than not doing it, and it's not really necessary, there would just be two ways to modulate pitch with the pitch wheel, one simpler, the other more flexible. But that does require UI changes, which I'm sure is something of a big deal.

Another possibility is that double- or maybe alt-click could open a small window where you could type in a value directly. It could appear on top of the control itself, giving the visual effect of the control becoming typeable.

Even simpler than both of those ideas, and maybe actually better, would be to have the left-and down-arrow keys decrement the value of the currently focused control by one, and right- and up-arrow increment it. No UI appearance change or new popup required, just that key handling, and it would make fine adjustment of any control possible. Possible complications I can see, from my ignorant vantage point:
- Do all supported hosts pass keyboard events to plugins? Since some VSTs let you type somewhere in them, it seems likely it could be made to work.
- Might there be ambiguity as to which control has the focus?
- Related, ideally the control with the focus would be indicated in the UI somehow (highlighted background or border maybe?). Don't know how hard that is, but part of the intent of this idea is to avoid visible UI changes, so I'd like to try this scheme without that indication first, see if it's problematic in real life.

Thanks for listening.

Markus Krause

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Re: Sound design: Pitchbend programming in Saurus
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2015, 11:53:21 AM »
Hello Dave,

chances are good that we are able to include a more comfortable pitchwheel programming in the next update. The update will be for free for all Saurus2 customers.

---

Some technical information:

Not all host pass keyboard events to the plugins. I remember for example that Orion does not forward the space key. This means in practise that plugins can not rely on receiving keypresses.

Doing an aggresive focus from within the plugin is problematic with several hosts or other software which runs in the background. In practise focus should be only forced as soon as the user clicks with the mouse somwhere inside the plugin.

---

Best Regards,
Markus

dave

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Re: Sound design: Pitchbend programming in Saurus
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2015, 12:15:41 PM »
Easier to use pitch wheel setup would be a great enhancement, thanks.

I was afraid it might be true that hosts don't pass keystrokes consistently. Still, if most do, it'd seem worthwhile to add that feature where it is supported. Host-dependent features do exist in the world :)

Not sure we're understanding each other about focus. I didn't mean that the plugin should ever force focus anywhere, or bring itself to the front. The user should control that by their clicks. I just meant that the arrow keys should increment and decrement the control that already has the focus. Make sense?

Markus Krause

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Re: Sound design: Pitchbend programming in Saurus
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2015, 11:55:09 AM »
In practise arrow keys would only work if the user has alredy clicked on a knob in the plugin and if the hosts supports it. Some users might experience this kind of inconsitent behaviour as a bug within the plugin. That's why we try to stay away from features that don't work relieable on all systems.

dave

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Re: Sound design: Pitchbend programming in Saurus
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2015, 12:36:31 PM »
In practice arrow keys would only work if the user has already clicked on a knob in the plugin and if the hosts supports it.
Only working if he user has already clicked on a knob in the plugin is the point -- that control has the focus, and can be nudged with the arrow keys. Like in many graphics programs, you can nudge the currently selected object that way. Yes, it only works when the IS a currently selected object, but that's how it works, it's an operation you can do on the selected object. In this context, it's the selected control, not an object.

One difference that may be an issue is that in graphics apps, there's always a visual cue about which object is selected, and as it stands, there's no indication which control has the focus, other than something in the host if it has one (Studio One does, but not on the control itself). A further possible improvement might be to add a gentle border or background color to indicate that, but to make this proposal as easy to implement as possible, unless that's super easy, I'd say try it without, see if users like it better than not having nudge capability at all.

As far as it not working in some hosts, my suggestion would be:
- Check out whether it works in most hosts, or only a few
- Abandon the idea if only a few can support it
- If most can, document that it only works of your host supports it, maybe document the ones that do

As long as you explain that it's NOT a bug (at least not in the plugin), it's just How It Is, I think you're in the clear, and you can offer this useful feature when it's possible. It's not a bug that the sidechain features of some plugins don't work in some hosts -- it depends whether both plugin and host support VST3, which has real sidechain support, and if not, whether the host's fake VST2 sidechain stuff works with a particular plugin. I think. Anyway, devs don't remove those features because they can't be supported on all hosts, they make them available when they can.

Speaking of host-dependent features, in Studio One you can type in a value for the selected control, but as I've said, in Saurus, when you press Enter to apply that value, it reverts to the current value of the control, doesn't update it. Is that something you have control over, or is it purely the host's problem?

Thanks again for listening :)

Markus Krause

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Re: Sound design: Pitchbend programming in Saurus
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2015, 10:04:17 AM »
Entering numbers with a keyboard is currently not supported from our plugins. So far noone else did this request this feature.

These tweaks are supported by many Tone2 plugins:

strg/ctrl+left mouse = reset a parameter to the default value
shift+left mouse+move mouse = fine tune a parameter
up/down/left/right key = quick select next/previous patch in patch browser (if host supports it)
mousewheel = quick select a list or percentage tweak parameter (on PC: only if plugin has focus)
mousewheel = quick select a patch / category in patch browser (on PC: only if plugin has focus)

dave

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Re: Sound design: Pitchbend programming in Saurus
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2015, 01:00:41 PM »
Ah, shift-mouse for fine tuning might be the solution, didn't know about that, will try it tonight when I'm home from work. Text entry may not be needed if fine tune works well.

I see that there are bindings for the arrow keys already, in that case they can't be used to nudge values.

Big picture, there are several issues in setting pitchbend range:
- Setting is way too coarse -- may be solved by shift-mousing
- Not calibrated in semitones (I think, will know better if fine tuning works out)
- Should be a dedicated control for this, instead of having to use the matrix

Markus Krause

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Re: Sound design: Pitchbend programming in Saurus
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2015, 01:52:09 PM »
Hello Dave,

So far not many users has requested this. However i will examine if i can add a more user friendly apporach of programming the pitchwheel to the next update. This update will be available for free for all Saurus2 users.