You must register to have access to the complete forum.

Author Topic: DAW suggestions?  (Read 12907 times)

Burkuagh

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 145
DAW suggestions?
« on: September 02, 2011, 04:06:17 PM »
I love fruityloops and have been using it almost since it first came out but with all the trouble I am having with its handling of 64-bit plugins I am thinking of trying something different. 

Can you guys suggest any DAWs that work better with 64-bit plugins that are good for loop-based production?

Markus Krause

  • Tone2.com audiosoftware
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3435
    • Tone2.com audiosoftware
Re: DAW suggestions?
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2011, 02:15:02 PM »
Fruity is a dead host. It's programmed in Delphi. Delphi is deprecated since a long time and won't support 64 bit. To support 64 bit Fruity would have to be rewritten completely in C++. My guess is that this won't happen...
I strongly recommend to change the DAW.

The 64 bit version of Orion seems to work quite well. Reaper could also be an alternative.

Ableton seems the bee popular, but i don't know about the 64 bit support.

Logic, Sonar and Cubase seem to have some problems with the bit bridge.

Bastiaan van Noord

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3053
    • Tone2 Audiosoftware
    • Email
Re: DAW suggestions?
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2011, 02:35:56 PM »

No 64 bit support for Ableton at the moment, I reckon they'll hit that mark with the 9.0 release.

Also hear a lot of good things about Presonus Studio One.

GeorgeZ

  • Sound Designer
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 449
Re: DAW suggestions?
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2011, 06:56:35 PM »
Fruity is a dead host. It's programmed in Delphi. Delphi is deprecated since a long time and won't support 64 bit. To support 64 bit Fruity would have to be rewritten completely in C++. My guess is that this won't happen...
I strongly recommend to change the DAW.

The 64 bit version of Orion seems to work quite well. Reaper could also be an alternative.

Ableton seems the bee popular, but i don't know about the 64 bit support.

Logic, Sonar and Cubase seem to have some problems with the bit bridge.


Not quite correct. IL is busy trialling the new 64 bit Delphi SDK (SDK? ... think it's SDK... or is it the compiler that has to compile to 64bit... anyway, you know what I mean. They have a working 64bit build which is in Alpha ATM).

One other thing to consider Burkuagh is, unless if you're using MASSIVE sample libs (ala EW etc) and require the extra ram access that 64bit provides, there's no discernible difference in performance.  The CPU load seems to not differ between using 64 bit and 32 bit plugs that are generative sythesis.

As for DAW choice... been using FL since 1.57. There is nothing that comes close to it's way of working. The Sampler channel that all samples get loaded into is light-years ahead of the game, and the workflow is completely different to every other DAW (whic could be good or bad, naturally). FL is unique in the way it manages it's lanes. No other DAW does it this way, and getting use to the 1 lane, 1 sample thing has been really hard for me... Orion.... too much of a step back. Demo X1 , Presonus Studio One and even Reaper 4 (which is quite good actually) and you'll start to notice how many little "work enhancements"  FL has, that people who don't actually use FL, never realize / don't know is there. Simple example: bussing and sidechaning in other DAW are a freekin nightmare, not in FL. Pogo and sample trim in the default channel... find something like that in another DAW. You won't.

If you're serious about getting another DAW, be prepared for a bit of downtime. Demo them properly if a demo is available, and take your time. A while back I pouted about FL, and everything I did sucked, and I blamed FL for that... what a F%^&ing noob DAW. After spending ages trying to fall in love with another DAW I realized I was just in a rut and needed to freshen myself up, not my DAW. back in love with FL and churning out banging tracks, practically like never before.

Good luck mate ;)

PS: the gist of this is, 64 bit is not the end of the world, and hardly a reason to change your known woking environment for... what plugin do you have that 64 bit only??

Markus Krause

  • Tone2.com audiosoftware
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3435
    • Tone2.com audiosoftware
Re: DAW suggestions?
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2011, 07:32:00 PM »
One important technical note i should still mention about 32 vs 64 bit:

On a Windows system one 32 bit Process (= a host like Fruity/Cubase/etc) can not allocate more than 2 GB of RAM. This RAM is shared among all Plugins and the host itself. If you load a large number of RAM-hungry plugins you cross this limit. Usually this results in a crash or muted plugins because not more RAM can be allocated.

On benchmarking i've noticed that native 64 bit plugins can be slightly faster (about 10%).

If you don't have a problem with the 2 GB limit there is no real need to migrate to 64 bit.

Burkuagh

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 145
Re: DAW suggestions?
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2011, 12:08:04 AM »
I have given up trying out other DAW demos.  I have been using FLS for far too long to give up its good parts for its hopefully temporary shortcomings. 

My initial irritation started with some large projects using the 64-bit ElectraX that were brainstorming sessions that had a ton of instances of the synth and when the new version came out it wouldn't load in 64bit inside FLS.  And when I try the 32-bit it crashes my computer so without downgrading those projects are lost until something is fixed. 

I have since changed my work methods to deal with the issues.

Markus Krause

  • Tone2.com audiosoftware
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3435
    • Tone2.com audiosoftware
Re: DAW suggestions?
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2011, 09:23:21 AM »
I think the limit is loading 6 or 7 instances of ElectraX on a 32 bit system. You can see the RAM use by pressing ctrl+alt+del and then browse to the process of the host.
Frederic from Image Line who works on the 64 bit adapter for fruity loops contacted me yesterday and asked some questions. He's working on a bug fix of the Adapter.

Burkuagh

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 145
Re: DAW suggestions?
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2011, 10:03:59 AM »
Nice.

GeorgeZ

  • Sound Designer
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 449
Re: DAW suggestions?
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2011, 10:12:54 AM »
Frederic from Image Line who works on the 64 bit adapter for fruity loops contacted me yesterday and asked some questions. He's working on a bug fix of the Adapter.

Oh thank F$*k! When I reported it they said the crash is NOT due to FL, it's "the plug in". I told them ALL but 5 of my 64 bit plugins crash the 64bit bridge after the wrapper update with the 10.0.2 release and sometimes even FL in total. I felt snubbed :(   Six point releases later they finally cop on ... aw well, I've down scaled to all 32 bit plugs... no more 64 bit plugs installed (apart from the ones that I HAVE to test :P ;) ). That's good news!

LeVzi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 282
    • Email
Re: DAW suggestions?
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2012, 09:00:21 AM »
I wouldn't hold your breath for 64bit support for FLS. I'm waiting on 64bit ports for the plug-ins, I doubt i'll see them much before 2013/14.

Apparantly the 64bit version of Delphi isn't fully supported by it's creators. Not sure how that works, but I know of at least 1 other dev who's porting from 32bit Delphi to 64bit.

GeorgeZ

  • Sound Designer
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 449
Re: DAW suggestions?
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2012, 09:46:38 AM »
Personally, I'm not super fussed, I've got Sonar X1 Producer Expanded x64 as well if I'm really in a bind... besides, I don't use big sample libs often, so ram's the least of my concern usually...

As I said earlier though, hardly the end of the world ;)

LeVzi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 282
    • Email
Re: DAW suggestions?
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2012, 02:09:37 AM »
Necro bump but seems I was wrong, and that the 64bit Delphi is a lot more stable than originally described.

Poise (Drum sampler) is in Alpha testing and looking good (I use it now with confidence)

And some of Maxx Clasters plug-ins are in beta for 64bit I believe. The IL plug-ins aren't getting ported apparantly, which is a bit of a bummer, but reflex is working on better versions to be compatible with the DAW's native bridge. :)

Happy times ahead so it seems.

Markus Krause

  • Tone2.com audiosoftware
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3435
    • Tone2.com audiosoftware
Re: DAW suggestions?
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2012, 10:59:26 AM »
Update of the list. Hosts which are not listed here are 'neutral'.

We can recommend these hosts (in it's latest version):
- Cubase 4 or higher
- Metro (Jeremy works hard and is collaborative if problems appear)
- Wavelab
- Sonar X1

Neutral ones:
- Orion (some minor issues with patch names and GUI)
- Ableton (does only list up to 256 parameters for automation; windows focus problems)
- Reaper (the autosave feature can sometimes crash plugins)
- Savihost (sometimes weird behaviour with the autosave function)
- Minihost (crashes when long patch names are used)

We do not recommend these hosts:
- Fruity Loops (bugs and compatibility issues are not solved for a long time; does not behave like the VST standard; no response on our requests to fix problems)
- Sonar 8.5 or lower (compatibility problems with GUIs)
- Logic (no VST support; bad 32 bit warpper)
- Protools (no VST support)
- Fxpansion VST to RTAS wrapper (not VST 2.4 compatible; no updates)
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 11:10:18 AM by Markus Feil »

Vdosh

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: DAW suggestions?
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2012, 06:26:43 AM »
You could give a try to Samplitude (download the demo).

No problem here so far with Samplitude, but I'm currently in 32 bit, not 64 bit. So you'll have to check how it currently works with 64 bit (and maybe, ask questions in the associated official Samplitude forum)

I prefer Samplitude, sound quality wise ; no sound quality loss with the Tone2 plugins, and very good plugins already included ; this DAW is all to sound quality ; its object oriented editing is brilliant.